René premiered in 2008. It won the European Film Award for Best Documentary. What fascinated you so much about René that made you film the sequel of his life story?
In René, I watched a boy being sent to a military school against his will at the age of sixteen. There he expressed his protest by committing theft. He was arrested, imprisoned, and his anger at society has been growing ever since. However, after twenty years of filming and the premiere, René himself gradually revealed his intellectual potential. For example, he met a young college girl, for whom he then wrote essays! One was about existentialism. René wrote an amazing essay on a Sisyphean theme. At the same time, he only has basic education and experience of life in prison. I was surprised he was able to think like that, I would be pretty lost in it myself.
Where did he get it from?
He reads all the time. He has a good memory, he can quote, but also reflect upon individual meanings. His intelligence is well above average. At the same time, he is often on the social bottom. It seemed like a unique combination to me.
You have been documenting René for over thirty years. What has changed over that time?
We shot for the first time in 1989, and I watched René for the film René until 2008. Cell phones were not common at that time, so René and I were in contact mainly through letters, he liked to write them. René was often in jail, it was complicated to deal with visiting permits. Sometimes I was allowed to visit him indoors, sometimes only in the visiting room.
And now?
We were in contact by phone. René was free, and he prefers to call rather than write when he’s out of prison. There are several women in his story, but also his lost son. He called me when he accidentally saw the film “René” in a juvenile correctional facility.
I was also pleasantly surprised by the input of the illustrator and musician Jaromír 99 with his comic book project. René, who had already written several books, was able to write a screenplay for him and it turned out to be a natural continuation of his creativity.
While in his youth, he had a hate message tattooed on his neck, today, he is looking for love. Is it a film about growing up?
Indeed, René had Fuck of People tattooed around his neck when he was in his twenties, even with that spelling mistake. Tattoos are more common today, but at the time he had it tattooed, it was shocking. But even now, the phrase on his neck still sends his message to the world. It takes time. When René gets angry today, he yells that he should have followed it more often. But when he’s okay, he tries to forget about it. Sometimes he covers it with a scarf. It is a struggle between hatred and love, between childhood and adulthood.
While watching the film, I realized how important social ties are – and that René actually has none after returning from prison.
René has no ties to his own family, for example, that is true. He had to build all the ones he had himself. The film also helped him with that. And he is already looking forward to the debates for the new sequel. He loves discussing the film, making contacts, it’s a sweet vision for him now.
How does René perceive fame?
He likes the feeling of being a celebrity, he is glad that people recognize him. When he went to Prague for René’s premiere in 2008, he was forbidden to visit Prague. The police recognized him and arrested him. But he gave them tickets to the premiere and they let him go, it was fine. At the same time, I must say that René does not take pride in his popularity. He’s too smart and clever for that. He doesn’t wallow in it.
How was the filming?
René would let me know what was going on. At the same time, for example, we made contact with a girl who visited him in prison during his unique stay behind bars. We went there with her for an announced visit. Of course, we also knew when he would be released, so we had the chance to prepare for that. And then we encountered a lot of random happenings when one learns that something is going on while already in the process. But I can handle it because it’s the essence of what I have been doing – for 40 years.
You focus on time-lapse documentary films. What attracts you to them?
Time-lapse is a bet on uncertainty. And that in itself is a challenge for me! Dealing with something you don’t know will go. I have to be vigilant and think about how to deal with the situation that is happening here and now. No preparation possible. Something happens unexpectedly, and I have to react to it? It awakens documentarist reflexes in me.
What is the key moment of time-lapse filming?
I’m always happy when we manage to wrap up. We first filmed René for nineteen years, now thirteen. He could blow us off at any time, he could cut off contact, he could never want to see me again.
In the cutting room, you could again rely on the editor Jakub Hejna. How did you work together during the covid pandemic?
I have been working with Jakub for twelve years. But this time, we were finishing the final cut of the film during the covid pandemic. It made my husband uneasy, he didn’t want me to leave the house. Not even go to the cutting room! He was sensitive about the situation.
How did you deal with it?
Normally, we would meet in the cutting room, where I would show Jakub the rough material and tell him what to choose. Since I couldn’t go there with him this time, I had to rely on the transcripts of the material. After each day of shooting is done, I make a transcript of the interviews, which I then study, preparing a basic cut. So I chose the most important scenes from each day, which I compiled in a text editor according to the statements and code numbers. I sent this rough version to Jakub, and he cut it accordingly – from a distance. The advantage was that I had more time to think. As I dug into the transcripts, I prepared everything maybe even more carefully.
When did you meet in the cutting room?
Only after we were vaccinated. We then continued in the usual way. Editing is very important for a documentary because through it you are actually building the shape of the film, there you see what is repeated, what is too much of, which situation is disproportionately long, how to compress it, what to cut out.
In your films, you follow the changes of individual fates against the background of contemporary history. What does René‘s story tell us about our current society?
René’s life reflects the Czech Republic’s attitude towards punishment and punishment in general. In 1989, still under socialism, he was sent to prison at the age of sixteen for petty theft. It wouldn’t happen today. So I see a shift towards humanizing punishment. In other words, even the penalization must be more thought out, it is not possible to mindlessly apply the penal code to everyone. On the other hand, it is evident that even today, the situation is not adequate.
Are you hinting at René’s recent prison episode?
René spent a long time out of prison, he never wanted to go there again, he had a regular job. But then he was caught driving without a driver’s license. Sure, he’s a recidivist, and he’s done it over and over again. But they sentenced him to three years! Are you really going to put such a man in jail for three years for driving without a license? That’s terrible. It points to the fact that the prison system is still a little dysfunctional.
René – The Prisoner of Freedom is premiering at the prestigious Amsterdam documentary film festival IDFA. Anny also premiered there. What does IDFA mean for you?
IDFA is considered the largest documentary festival in Europe. In addition to Anny, Katka and Private Universe were also screened there, and I even had a retrospective of my work there two years ago. It is a great joy, a beautiful city, a great audience. It’s a pleasure to be there because I feel like making films there still makes sense.
